Tuesday, July 10, 2012

A Hollow Foundation

I get awfully confused when people say the word "Faith."

Not quite as confused as I get when people use vague phrases like "spiritual" or "rational" but I find that more often than not I don't know what people are talking about.

Here's my basic definition of faith: A belief without supporting evidence or proof. Am I wrong? Is the word not being used this way by the faithful? Maybe someone can help me out.

In any case, if my definition is correct... what's so virtuous about it? I mean seriously, if you're faithful in religion or whatever else, apply this principle to almost anything else and it wouldn't even make sense to you! I believe in x in spite of having no evidence to support my belief is not a responsible or enlightened way to think.

Despite often having no real evidence to back up certain beliefs, there are lots of reasons people give for holding those beliefs, and as of yet I've not heard one that passes the test for being a reasonable argument. Am I talking to the wrong people? Do the faithful just not take my criticism seriously because I'm not on their team? Maybe I'm not supposed to understand it.

Some of the reasons I've been given for believing in a god are as follows (and you can substitute god in for almost any supernatural claim and the same criticism will hold true)

  • You can't prove he DOESN'T exist!! True, I can't. However, this is an argument from ignorance -- we can't use knowledge we don't have to make a positive claim, nor can we use a lack of refutation as reasonable justification for belief. Using this logic, I can claim that anything exists simply because we have no evidence to say otherwise. Don't believe in unicorns? Well you can't say there aren't any. Would I be justified in believing in unicorns? Probably not.

    Unfortunately, that's kind of the standard analogy atheists like to give to make belief in god seem ridiculous. It's not a very good analogy, as omnipotent supernatural beings that exist outside of time and space are in no way analogous to natural beings that may or may not exist in space in time. However, the fact that we have no evidence for either one of these things is the most important point to stress here.
  •  If there's no god, how would we know right from wrong? This response always seems a little dishonest to me. Most human beings know full well that they have a knowledge of right and wrong, and it often doesn't mesh with the scriptures themselves. So, rather than modify their morality to fit the scriptures, the scriptures must be reinterpreted to fit the modern morality. It's a tale all too common. I was once told by a friend that without his faith in god, he would just go out and kill and rape whoever he'd like. I didn't believe him. Why? Because there are real world consequences for that kind of crap that no human being in his right mind would accept (incarceration, the loss of respect and love from friends and family, the empathy the attacker would have on the victim, the painful and not always successful process of rehabilitation, the shunning of the attacker by society even after time is served, etc.) Knowledge of right and wrong is something that's clearly a secular thing (separate from religion), and that's a good thing! In fact, it doesn't even have to have anything to do with religion! In any case, even if we had no way to tell right from wrong without a divine authority, it still would not prove that that authority exists.
  • I have a personal relationship with [insert messiah here] and without him I would still be the horrible human being I used to be! This argument is often heard after someone goes through a difficult period in their life, and converts to the religion of their choice. "Being saved" basically. I have a lot of sympathy for this form of belief, though I still disagree with it. The main reason is that it's simply an anecdote, with all the biases in place. When someone is in a bad place in their life, there are many avenues of rehabilitation, and religion likes to set up camp in that territory. It works. Just look at the popularity of Alcoholics Anonymous, a religion disguised as drug rehab. The logic falls apart when you realize that this particular argument assumes its assertion right there in its premise: "I believe in god because I have a relationship with the god I believe in." Would that be good enough for any other belief?
  • You just gotta have faith
When all is said and done, it seems to come down to this. I've left out all of the anti-evolution arguments that people use, because those are all buried as far as I'm concerned. If you don't believe in evolution, just bring to mind any of your favourite anti-evolution arguments and cross-check it with talkorigins.org.

Anyway, once you start telling me that you believe in god because of your faith, and that that's a good thing, there's one last step you have to take before you convince me your argument is valid: convince me that faith is a good thing, a good way to construct a philosophical reality. Good luck with that, based of the definition I've given (which I'd still my faithful friends to clarify). All the logical fallacies, bad evidence, philosophical filler and scripture you can lay on top of your belief simply does not change the fact that the reason you believe what you do is based on faith. That's a hollow foundation, and all the justification in the world cannot change that without fixing the foundation with scientific evidence. Judaism alone is a huge pill to swallow without evidence for the truth of its scriptures, and piling Christianity, Islam or Mormonism on top of that certainly doesn't help the case. (I exclude other religions from this criticism based on my unfamiliarity with them, not because they are unworthy of criticism. For all I know, they're just as wrong).


5 comments:

  1. Good piece Dean! Having spent decades in christian fundamentalism I have to give you some sad news. Most believers will simply wave their magic wand and label you as an unbeliever or even worse, an unbelieving atheist! Thus they give themselves permission not to engage you on the level of rational criticism. If they come into your ballpark to play they will get smoked and they fear that. They would rather dismiss you with "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God'". Presto, they don`t need to engage you because you are a fool in their eyes.
    Concerning faith I remember the definition I was taught in bible college; faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. That is an amazing bit of bafflegab is it not? Trying to agree with a believer on what constitutes acceptable evidence is a frustrating game. They are far too eager to accept the anecdotal when it agrees with what they already believe. When a skeptic proposes acceptable evidence the believer often defaults to the "God doesn`t work like that" defense which is really no defense at all. It is a dodge.
    Again Dean, good post! Your rational thinking also comes out in the lyrics of your songs and that is a good combo in my opinion. You are planting seeds of doubt. Keep on planting!

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  2. Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It is like upsetting A milk jug and Hoping that the way it splashes itself Will give you a map of London. But if I can't trust my own thinking, of course I can't trust the arguments leading to atheism! And therefore have no reason to be an atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve God.
    -csl
    What are your thoughts on this?

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  3. Well, first off, the brain is a less than perfect instrument to rely on, and it takes a lot of due diligence before we can rely on the information our brain interprets. The brain was not "designed for thinking", it evolved to survive.

    We can't just trust our own thinking to be true - That would be irresponsible.

    The analogy of the milk jug is a very bad one indeed. Brains don't just pop up in all their complexity based on random chance like the map of London - the human brain evolved over millions of years and imperfect as it may be, it's managed to survive and thrive. Even then, after a brain is produced, you actually have to fill it with knowledge and wisdom before you have any hope of using your brain to interpret reality.

    It goes without saying that if you can't trust your own thinking, you wouldn't be able to trust the arguments leading to atheism OR Christianity. The argument essentially goes in circles: "There must be a god for me to believe in him."

    'Brain therefore god' is not a sufficient explanation for either what the brain does or what caused its evolution. If you're curious about the brain, it's important to learn how it works the way it does and the limits of it before we can make any conclusions. This is an argument from personal incredulity -- in no way does the ignorance of neurological knowledge give us any new information.

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  4. I've seen large piles of shit before and that my good sir is THE BIGGEST PILE OF SHIT I have ever seen. I'm sorry but the first half of that just sounds outrageously silly. Maybe one of these days my brain will have evolved enough to be as wise as yours to see the world the same way... But I doubt I will live long enough

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  5. Rather than criticize my views by saying they're shitty (not productive at all), perhaps you could point out exactly why we disagree, and hopefully come to some kind of agreement. Surely you believe that our brains are the product of a god, so is there any reason why that god would design our brains in such a way that we'd be unable to agree on such a fundamental issue?

    Your pessimism is unfortunate, but understandable.

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